Christopher McFadden [00:00:00]:

I love putting chardonnay with beef tenderloin and hollandaise or bearnaise. Bearnaise sauce. Yeah. I had that happen. I was in California. I was a judge for a steak event and wine event, and I got introduced to bearnaise sauce, beef tenderloin, and chardonnay, and I was just wowed. Wow.

Angelo Esposito [00:00:32]:

Foreign. Welcome to another episode of WISKing It All. We're joined Today by Christopher McFadden, the founder and career coach at the McFadden Group. I was looking forward to this conversation. So, first of all, Christopher, welcome to the WISKing it all show.

Christopher McFadden [00:00:49]:

Oh, Angelo, thank you, man. This is. This is exciting. This is great.

Angelo Esposito [00:00:53]:

It's gonna be a fun one. So really, you know, you know the drill. I know you listen into some of the episodes, so it's really a chance for our audience to get to know you, what you do, your story. We'll definitely get deeper into the McFadden group and what you do as a career coach, but I want to maybe start off with your backstory, but I always like to start off with what is it that you do today? So people know. So let's do a little intro of what is the McFadden group? Let people know what you do, and then we'll circle back later on in the episode to really go through the details there. Okay.

Christopher McFadden [00:01:25]:

Ah, awesome. That's fantastic. So I do hospitality career coaching, where I focus on developing individuals emotional intelligence to help align their core values, to direct them correctly in the career. Career moves that they should be making.

Angelo Esposito [00:01:43]:

I love that. And we're definitely gonna get deeper into that because, you know, who. Who. Who can't benefit from coaching. Right. Honestly. So we'll get more into that and the things you do and how you do it and your philosophies. But I always like to understand how people got where they got, you know, the kind of the why.

Angelo Esposito [00:01:58]:

So let's go back to the start. You know, like, what made you fall in love with hospitality? That's all. It's usually one of my first questions, no matter who I'm interviewing, because I always like to understand what led them to the hospitality world. So go for it. You tell me what led you to hospitality.

Christopher McFadden [00:02:12]:

I was. I worked in retail when I was a kid in my teenage years at a sports shoe store here called Athletes World, which was like Foot Locker, but it was. I was. I was 13 years old, and I kept applying, and I couldn't legally work until I was 14, but I just kept dropping off resume after resume after resume at 13 years old, and the day before my 14th birthday, they hired me after nine resumes, I fell in love with in. And I think hospitality is not just the food and beverage side of the world. It's that gesture of how we take care of people. And, yeah, I guess I was just drawn to people a younger age and working at a golf course when I was 12, and it was funny, my dad and I played at that golf course last summer, and I went into the space that I started at 12 years old and taking care of people, and I did retail for four, almost five years. But at 18 years old is when I went, oh, there's more money in the restaurant business, so maybe we'll go that direction.

Christopher McFadden [00:03:12]:

And it was just that between. Between the idea of high school and what's next.

Angelo Esposito [00:03:18]:

But I found hospitality then interesting, and we're going to keep going deeper on that journey. But one thing I was like, also kind of take it out is lessons in the early days. Right. Obviously you have lessons you learned in the last year, in the last month, but sometimes there's lessons that stick with you from, you know, being a young boy. So any lessons that you can look back and say, you know what? Those are some interesting things I picked up from my, you know, Foot Locker days or my golf, you know, working days.

Christopher McFadden [00:03:45]:

Yeah. The day I got hired at Athletes World, I thought I was in the bubble of them knowing who I was. And I walked into the stock area on my first day, and I saw my gm. His name was Glenn. And I looked him, I was like, hey, punk, how's it going? And he goes, pardon me, Start again. And I was like, oh, okay. And it was about knowing. Knowing your place entirely.

Christopher McFadden [00:04:15]:

Profound moment at 14 years old of things that you don't say to your boss.

Angelo Esposito [00:04:18]:

And day one, hey, better you learn those lessons early on. That's so.

Christopher McFadden [00:04:22]:

That's.

Angelo Esposito [00:04:23]:

That's awesome. And so kind of, look, you're working in retail. You, you know, learning the ropes. You get more into the, you know, golf clubs and country clubs. What's next? Right. Because you've been at this for a while. I know you're also, you know, sommelier. You have a ton of experience.

Angelo Esposito [00:04:36]:

So what happened after that?

Christopher McFadden [00:04:39]:

I did restaurants for 25 years. I fell in love with wine at 20 years old. When I was living in Lake Louise, I was an actor through my high school years into that being my career, and then pivoting into going and taking a break from being in Toronto and New York to Lake Louise, and I fell in love with wine. When I was with Fairmont Hotels and I knew that I was going to kind of move traditional university and college aside and that my goal was going to be getting my small E diploma. And I decided that that at 20 years old was that this was the direction I was going to go, that I wanted to be a part of guests experiences but in a bigger light. And that's what drew me into it. So I fell in love with one.

Angelo Esposito [00:05:19]:

Interesting. And for people who don't know like what does it take to become a sommelier? Like I know you mentioned sommelier diploma. Like I'd love to share that with our audience because I'm sure they're, they're interested in learning.

Christopher McFadden [00:05:29]:

I think it's amazing now. So my training was with the International Somalia Guild who was really it in Canada. They were the Canadian Small League out that became the International Small League Guild. And it was long. I had pre sommelier courses to do. My final diploma was nine hours a week in class for 28 or 29 weeks. And things have shifted a lot over the last 25 years since I've done it. Where WSET has highly become super involved in Canada, Quartermaster sommeliers in the US is now expanding their wings into over the borders and offering opportunities here.

Christopher McFadden [00:06:03]:

But it was the journey of understanding everything about grapes and wine and, and the specifics of how important that was into what we were doing with food. And it was that, that magic of it. But I. It's an intense, they're intense programs. My final exam was over two days and it was aggressive. Like the blind tasting was 20 wines in three hours. And it was. Yeah, it was definitely a moment.

Christopher McFadden [00:06:30]:

But the intensity of it is huge. And we see great movies like know the Psalms series of movies. There's an intensity to it because there's a perfection that goes into, you know, with winemakers putting this much time and heart and love into it and then waiting years until that vintage is created.

Angelo Esposito [00:06:50]:

Right.

Christopher McFadden [00:06:51]:

Yeah. I think it's that magic. It's the magic of what it takes to create something that's alive. And that was a big part.

Angelo Esposito [00:07:00]:

That's really cool. And I know there's levels to this. I remember at WISKers, this was a while back, we're setting up a, a really cool restaurant. The restaurant slips me. But it wasn't a. In a hotel. And turns out one of the guys we're dealing with was a master sommelier. And, and I don't even know exactly what that means, but I, I know he told me there wasn't a Lot of them.

Angelo Esposito [00:07:18]:

So, so I'd love, I'd love to hear from you, like, what are the levels to this thing? Because it made, you know, I didn't appreciate it so much until someone told me, like, do you know, like, how hard it is to be a master sommelier? And I was like, no, I don't actually.

Christopher McFadden [00:07:30]:

Watching the chorus, like watching the movie song was so just prolific for every sommelier out there to see what was possible, but the depths of how to get there, what that looked like. So for the quartermaster sommeliers, you know, certified sommelier, which is your starting point and then applying for your advanced. And I think it's getting invited to write your master's. But I have friends and colleagues that have gone after their. Because you do your theoretical first. I think it is, I may.

Angelo Esposito [00:08:01]:

Okay, mess this up.

Christopher McFadden [00:08:02]:

Tasting and theoretical are the two components to it.

Angelo Esposito [00:08:05]:

Got it.

Christopher McFadden [00:08:06]:

Service component, I think tied in with that. But the, I have friends that have done their masters theoretical six or seven times and have not gotten past that yet. Their walls are just hand drawn maps of everywhere in the world. Because intensity of what your, what you need to know is everything. It's, it's everything. Becoming a sommelier is great. The intensity of becoming a master sommelier, it's, it's a commitment for sure. But I see friends through the starting process of trying to begin the study for it.

Christopher McFadden [00:08:46]:

Yeah, it's, it's beyond levels up, I think. Yeah, it's, it's the hardest exam that nobody's ever heard of, I think is the tagline.

Angelo Esposito [00:08:56]:

That's a good one. Yeah. Okay. That's a good one. We're gonna snip that. I like that. It's the hardest exam no one's ever heard of. That's fair.

Christopher McFadden [00:09:02]:

For those that have done it, I applaud you. But I have friends that are advanced, small A's and educationally or beyond. And, and the master level goes up.

Angelo Esposito [00:09:14]:

And look, we'll definitely keep, you know, going through your journey, but I want to just zoom in a little more on the Somalia just because we have so many restauranteurs, bar managers, chefs, Somalias that listen in, you know, so to those people who are maybe somal or aspiring Somalias are listening in, they're, you know, working up their way up in their, the restaurant scene or the bar scene, and that side of the business interests them. Any advice you would give to those people who are aspiring sommelies.

Christopher McFadden [00:09:40]:

Yeah, be safe. I, I, I have to throw this in there. Is that I didn't realize that drinking Wine all day was going to become a problem for me. I quit drinking. Well, I. I've had a. I've had a speed bump and a hiccup throughout all this, but May 12, 2017, I decided to hang up the glass, if you will, and I was drinking too much and I didn't, I didn't pay attention to that being a thing because it was a part of my profession. Somalis drink wine during the day.

Christopher McFadden [00:10:08]:

This is what you do. This is a part of it. You do your inventory. Somehow your inventory is magically put together. There's elements to the reality of what that life looks like. And then the restaurant culture life of just going out and having a couple beers and a couple shots to cleanse my palate from the day of wine. It was, it was not that it was uncontrollable that I was maliciously going out to get drunk. It was just a part of the job.

Christopher McFadden [00:10:33]:

And I mismanaged that personally because it became now a mismanagement of it professionally. And it was interesting because when I did quit, I started tasting wine again a couple years after I quit drinking, thinking that I could have control over it. And. And I slipped on that again. So it's Bill, it'll be eight years on May 12th since I've had a sip of hard alcohol or beer, and it'll be three years September 4th since wine. But my big thing, quitting drinking and still doing the business. And I think this is such an attribute to understanding this study of it was the tasting component is hugely important. But when that becomes a problem for you and you need to survive in the business because it's your livelihood was I had 17 sommeliers in Western Canada reach out to me and say, how did you do it? Like, how did you.

Christopher McFadden [00:11:24]:

How were you able to stop that and still do this? And it was a complete backwards looking at it going because I'm. Because I'm educated, you're educated, we know what Sancerre tastes like. And yes, there's different components of how it's, how it's created and what's being done in the wineries and what's the final outcome of it. But the study of it is going to give us enough premise, I think after 20 ish years of doing this, that it's not just the tasting that's the component, it's the understanding of what it is that, yeah, is a part of a guest's experience to be able to enjoy with the meals. And I think I did better pairings when I wasn't Tasting and I wasn't drinking. Yeah. So I think my biggest piece of advice is just do your best to keep yourself on your own leash because it can, it can get away from people.

Angelo Esposito [00:12:17]:

Get away from people. No, thanks. Look, thanks for sharing. Thanks for being vulnerable. I think it's, it's, it's very real, very raw. With what we love about this podcast, we get real people to share their real life experiences. And, you know, I love that. I mean, I don't love that happened, but I love that you can share and you came out on the other side and now you're giving real, real life advice, you know, which, which I think is, is, is really cool.

Angelo Esposito [00:12:39]:

So thank you for sharing that. So for aspiring some of these, listening, that's, I think that's some really good advice and I'd love to, you know, getting back to the kind of the journey, like, how, how did your journey look? And we'll zoom in a bit here and then we'll get to the fun stuff which will be, you know, the McFadden group and how you do and all that kind of what you do, how you do it. But I always like to understand. So, you know, through that Somalia journey, what did that look like on the kind of venue side? Like, were you working in hotels and regular restaurants and fine dining? Like, what did that trajectory look like? And what are some lessons you learned along the way there?

Christopher McFadden [00:13:13]:

It was interesting. My, I think my biggest pivot in, was realizing too though, as, as a Somalia, it's not you just join a restaurant, somebody gives you a wine program. It's you still need to learn how to run a room. And that management role has to become the first thing you do before somebody goes here, here's the book. Good luck. Build a wine program or continue the wine program. So I was living in, I lived in Lake Louise and Banff for a few years. And when I met my wife in Emerald Lake, bc, we had moved to Calgary a few months after getting to know each other.

Christopher McFadden [00:13:49]:

We've been together 20 years this year, which is super cool. But she, we got to Calgary and I got hired at a restaurant called the Belvedere. And the Belvedere, this was in 2006, I got hired and the Belvedere was at its, one of the pinnacles of Canada. And I got hired and all of a sudden I was learning and I got hired as waiter into three months later my owner saying, hey, it'd be really, I need somebody to rent a room for me. And he then gravitated me into my first official technically GM position. But I had a very, very firm French chef who was like, don't call yourself gm. That's the guy that pushes papers. And I was like, well, you call yourself maitre d, right? I think that's the right title.

Christopher McFadden [00:14:33]:

And I was like, okay. He goes, yeah, you're gonna be doing GM stuff, but right, Maitre d has a title and sommelier. And learning from an independent owner was so paramount in understanding the business was that it wasn't being managed by a huge backend corporate office or a different department that was handling everything. This was the owner at the desk at the computer. You know, when all of a sudden we were getting charged for gas from suppliers, he was sending them an invoice for cutting a check. And I was like, what? And he goes, well, yeah, here's $3. A dollar more than the two dollar surcharge was for gas, but three dollar charge for me to print an invoice, write a check, cut a check. And I was like, what are we doing? And it goes, it's the business that we're in.

Christopher McFadden [00:15:24]:

And I was like, okay, all right. This is like, okay. I. But I understood the difference of that, the sincerity of the independent guy that was running one of the best restaurants in the country. Only the best restaurant, one of the best restaurants in the country. Sorry. And watching him do the work, like when you walked in the office, he was there smoking cigarettes and that was, you know, that was the gig. But then going into the corporate world, I was now taking all of the hands on ness of running a restaurant into finally getting the 800 bottle wine list, into now being able to gravitate and grow that.

Christopher McFadden [00:15:58]:

But it all came from the simplicity of paying attention to one person teaching me everything because he had done it very well. So then getting into the corporate world, when we were in Vancouver, I was with Highs of Canada Steakhouses, which is the oldest steakhouses company in Canada. I had spent time in larger organizations as well, but I was constantly looking for that independent place again because I missed it. I missed that sincerity of doing all of this stuff not on my own per se, but in a much more bubbled environment. Yeah, so yeah, we're in Vancouver, where.

Angelo Esposito [00:16:34]:

Your ideas can actually come to life and where you can kind of make more of an impact a little faster.

Christopher McFadden [00:16:41]:

I bounced a bit with that and then all of a sudden I realized that the independent guys weren't pulling the weight of making sure that a paycheck was every two weeks. And so I ended up back, you know, and that's when I really were really with highs for five years or so. And then I, I became a partner in a restaurant just outside of Vancouver and where I was with them for about four years. And then that's kind of led to where I've gotten my life to today.

Angelo Esposito [00:17:09]:

That's awesome. And I gotta ask you, during Those, you know, 20 plus years of experience, were there times or moments where you kind of just questioned staying in the industry?

Christopher McFadden [00:17:24]:

No. I love it. I love this business.

Angelo Esposito [00:17:27]:

That's awesome.

Christopher McFadden [00:17:28]:

I just love it. I think there's, it's the simple understanding that we all like to go out to eat and be merry and have fun and celebrations and enjoyment.

Angelo Esposito [00:17:40]:

Yeah.

Christopher McFadden [00:17:42]:

And having that as a part of just the human experience of things that we like to do and then being able to translate that to somebody else's experience. Because your own expectations, I think, set up a lot for the success of what we do and taking care of people. And I, I, I, I think food and beverage side of hospitality is, is the everything.

Angelo Esposito [00:18:07]:

That's awesome. Yeah, no, I, look, it's, it's amazing when you think about it. For me, it's something I always loved about the hospitality space is, is, it's one of the, the few places where like, you really feel that human connection and emotion. You know, you could see someone on their first date, you could see someone on their 50th wedding anniversary. You could see colleagues celebrating a promotion, like just whatever the occasion is, or it could just be a Friday night out. But like, it's just, to me, it's all special that it's like you're creating these core memories for people. You know, it's not just, you know, for, for you working there, the average person, yeah, sure, it could just be another shift, but for that person attending and experiencing things, it's, it's a memory that'll likely stick with them, which is kind of a really cool thing.

Christopher McFadden [00:18:52]:

Well, they chose your place. Like, when they walk in your doors, there's millions of places to go.

Angelo Esposito [00:18:57]:

They chose you there.

Christopher McFadden [00:18:59]:

So how are you gonna stand out? What's the difference? That was the to, it was the moments that I was having with guests were like, just give me your menus. Like, let's just feed you. How hungry are you? Where are you at? Right. You're not working today.

Angelo Esposito [00:19:13]:

Those are my favorite places when they do that. That's my favorite. Some of the best nights I've had were exactly that.

Christopher McFadden [00:19:17]:

Situation.

Angelo Esposito [00:19:18]:

Situation. Sit down. Are you guys picky? No, I'm open. Any allergies? I should know of. No. Cool. You guys like this type of wine? I got the perfect pairing. All right.

Angelo Esposito [00:19:26]:

Is this budget fair for you guys? Yeah. Cool. All right. Those are my favorite little wine pairing. Nice little meal. You don't have to worry. And to be honest, every time I've done that, I've been like, so happy because I've realized I wouldn't have chosen those things on the menu because sometimes they don't speak to you just visually. Like reading the name, I'm like, I don't know, it doesn't really sound like something, but like, when it comes out, I'm like, this delicious.

Angelo Esposito [00:19:50]:

What is this? And it's like, I would have never ordered that.

Christopher McFadden [00:19:53]:

So it's neat when you can not catch people off guard by that being a tone of, you know. You know. Right. But more of that. That excellence that exists. Let's level up. You know, I used to say to staff before, and it's funny, I call people that have never worked in, let's just say, hospitality in the spectrum of things here, for not retail, but just in the food and beverage side of things, was people that have never worked in the business and don't know how much goes into operating this business. So I used to say to my staff, just, the general public's on table 52.

Christopher McFadden [00:20:30]:

And they're like, what? And I was like, the general public. This is what I'm going to call this grouping of people as the general public, they don't know how cool it is of what they're about to experience because of what we do. Let's level this up, right? Let's let them know how much goes into the heart and soul of making sure dinner is perfect. Perfect. And it was neat. So people were like, huh? And you'd have that. That genuine gesture back to from people going, what an experience. Like, I didn't expect.

Christopher McFadden [00:21:00]:

Yeah, great, great. Come back. Come back and hang out again. Right? But taking people into that next step and having a guest go, wow, in such a sincerity, I think it's everything.

Angelo Esposito [00:21:10]:

Yeah, I totally agree. And I mean, look, cuz you're somebody. I got to ask you this before we move. Move more into, you know, the actual consulting side and the coaching side. But two questions I just. I need to ask one. What is one of your favorite wine slash food pairings? You know, so example might be like, because I'm. I'm no sommelier, so my brain looks like champagne and fried chicken, but you give me something more sophisticated.

Angelo Esposito [00:21:37]:

What's one of your favorite wine pairings?

Christopher McFadden [00:21:40]:

I love putting chardonnay with beef tenderloin and hollandaise or Bernays. Bernays sauce. Yeah, I, I had that happen. I was in California at a, I was a judge for a steak event and wine event and I got introduced to bearnaise sauce, beef tenderloin and chardonnay and I was just wowed. Wow. I got a thing with white wine and beef that I think is a lot. There's a lot of playfulness that can go with it because again, it surprises people that that's a thought. But you can do it.

Christopher McFadden [00:22:16]:

So, yeah, white wine, White wine and meat is a thing for me. I like to.

Angelo Esposito [00:22:20]:

That's playing the game. Yeah, that's cool. See, I'm glad I asked that. And the second one I asked you because of your wine experience is I, I'd be ashamed if I didn't ask this because I'm sure people are listening in, like, ask this question. What makes a good wine program?

Christopher McFadden [00:22:33]:

Right.

Angelo Esposito [00:22:33]:

You have so much experience. You've been in the industry 20 plus years. You're somebody. So any advice to people who are listening? Like, damn it, ask him what makes a good wine program or what can I do to, you know, improve my wine program? How do you think about that and what are maybe tips you can give people?

Christopher McFadden [00:22:49]:

I was very genuine about working with family producers. There's nothing wrong with big, huge corporations by any means. And I'm not ever going to put anybody down that puts something very cool into a body, into a bottle of wine by any means. But for me, there was a sincerity about looking more to my neighbor than down the road, if you will, so that maybe I can help put your kids into a better school by buying more wine from you. Right. But this is where we're at with it. But I like wine lists that have a good balance between expected and unexpected. There should be things that make people go, huh? And I think there's a sincerity that exists with a guest's perception of what you know.

Christopher McFadden [00:23:33]:

It's a steakhouse. Yeah, we're just gonna have some cabernet tonight. Well, great, great. However, I got some other cool things that I'd love to show you. I believe in suggestions being more statements than questions. I was taught as a retail youth was, you know, open ended questions. And I started pivoting that to how I created wine list was more of this is what I'm after, this is what I want. Not a, do you have this? So that it allowed my wine reps to be able to understand which direction to go.

Christopher McFadden [00:24:01]:

And then to come with questions to me versus the other way was that this is what, this is what I want to do. This is how I want to get there. Is your. Is your company going to be able to help you get there? Are we going to be able to accomplish this together? Because once I buy wine from the wine rep. Well, now it's our program because you need to make sure what we've done and the decision that we made collectively, technically speaking, here. Yeah, I said, yeah, put it on the list. But now you need to make sure it's going well. So my big thing was the sincerity of, of working.

Christopher McFadden [00:24:31]:

Working closer with my wine reps than them just being wine reps that I bought wine from, but developing that relationship there, that helped me understand what they could do with me, not for me, with me. So my big thing is look at your local, your more localized places as well as the bigger guys. But if you can put somebody else, somebody's kid through a better school and put better food on the table because you're helping a 300 case production out versus a 30 million case production, I think it shifts the perspectives on how you think about things.

Angelo Esposito [00:25:04]:

That's cool. That's a really good way. Like, I'm glad you shared that. And I gotta ask one, one question. I don't know if this is a myth or not, but I've seen it. But I'm curious if you have. Is it true that the most sold wine on the menu is typically the second cheapest bottle?

Christopher McFadden [00:25:19]:

Huh. Interesting. I don't. I can't. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna confirm that in full truth. But now that I'm looking at it. Yeah.

Christopher McFadden [00:25:31]:

You know what's funny is that you'll sell more wines at 99 a bottle versus putting them to a hundred dollars a bottle. And I did that as a.

Angelo Esposito [00:25:38]:

So much pricing psychology. Right, Right.

Christopher McFadden [00:25:41]:

It's just, you know, and I'm like, it's just a zero. People are like, what? Yeah, it's nothing. Right. Even though it.

Angelo Esposito [00:25:46]:

Yeah. Because ever people. That's a good one. Right? Like the zero. Another good one I heard is like, yeah, sometimes people don't want to buy the cheapest or the cheapest is 65 and the next one up is 72. People buy the second one, you know, or another good one that I've heard. Which makes sense because again, I can't say for sure because I haven't created a wine menu, but it works in other industries is, you know, price anchoring. So you might put like a super Expensive ball wine and then put your other wine.

Angelo Esposito [00:26:09]:

So then the. If you're starting at 400 and you see some 90 bottles, it feels reasonable. But I'm sure like anything, there's menu psychology. I'm just curious about the wine psychology, you know.

Christopher McFadden [00:26:19]:

Yeah, I think it's neat because there's I. One big thing that I learned was especially when you get into really expensive stuff like I sold Scream Eagle Cabernet by the glass for 750A glass. A glass, pumped out $30,000 of it in two weeks and I had Harlan Estate beside it, you know. So for 1250 bucks, those were two six ounce portions of the wine on the table. But we were the only restaurant in the world pouring this by the glass. We did it with Coravin and it was amazing. But at 750 a glass. Right.

Christopher McFadden [00:26:53]:

I didn't pay 150 a glass for it. Like Screaming Eagle is an expensive wine. It just is. Right. So it should have been on my wine list for probably 7 or 8,000. But I put it on my wine list for around four and only put a profit on it of about 1200 bucks. Because the difference was is that if that's what I'm going to rely on making a bunch of money on, then I don't have this. Right.

Christopher McFadden [00:27:16]:

What if I was the place that became more accessible for somebody to make an investment tonight? Yeah. Not everybody goes out and spends four grand at a bottle of wine. However, if the restaurant down the road is charging 8 for it, well then maybe we can sell to and make a couple of grand. Right. But I believe in pulling forks and creating a little bit more opportunity to sell versus an E. So. And it makes a difference. It shifts perspectives completely.

Christopher McFadden [00:27:40]:

My biggest thing that I always find that was an issue trying to explain to guests. People are like, that seems expensive for a 9 ounce glass of wine. And I was like it's a third of a bottle. And they're like what? And I'm like, well if I charge you 60 bucks for the bottle, you wouldn't have a problem with that. But you have a problem that I'm charging you $20 for a nine ounce glass.

Angelo Esposito [00:27:59]:

They're like 25 ounce divide by three.

Christopher McFadden [00:28:04]:

It's holding somebody's hands. Right. And is reading reviews of restaurants are like, you know, they're 9 ounces are really, really expensive. I think that the greatest thing is present yourself in a very fair way that you can be profitable but in a. In a stronger way where you can do. You know, I've. I'm Good at sales. I just.

Christopher McFadden [00:28:24]:

I am, and I'm blessed for that. But again, I think about it differently, and it's, you know, suggestions and statements versus questions and yes or nos. And, you know, I've had wine programs that they did 150, 160,000 more in wine sales year over year. Because I thought about it differently. Right. Let's just. And it wasn't about trying to achieve that. It's not bragging about it here.

Christopher McFadden [00:28:45]:

But the difference was, is that we can make something more of this because we're creating more opportunities to sell wines in general for people that give them a chance to, you know, invest in a $90 bottle tonight instead of a $60 bottle because it's 120 down the road, usually. Right. Is that price yourself into a model that becomes accessible for people not to be nervous, to ask.

Angelo Esposito [00:29:08]:

Yeah.

Christopher McFadden [00:29:08]:

And be fair. Be fair and confident that you'll sell more by putting more people in the door because you have a better wine program that's offered at a better price because it's. It's more versatile to everybody and not just a certain demographic.

Angelo Esposito [00:29:26]:

Makes sense. I like that. Thank you for sharing that. And, and I want to write, like, as a, you know, somebody at. At the time, right. You. You knew. At.

Christopher McFadden [00:29:34]:

You.

Angelo Esposito [00:29:34]:

Well, you still know, you know, all these wines and the ins and out, whatever. But a big part of the sales force is the servers. Right. Like, they're getting asked questions and, you know, so obviously training employees on. On the menu and on the, on the, on at least some of the wines is important. How did you go about that? Because I know that's something that, like, if they're, if they're not knowledgeable, if they don't know how to suggest the right things, that's obviously affecting sales negatively. So how did you go about making sure your staff was empowered to kind of, you know, do what you do? To a. To a lesser extent, but to some extent.

Angelo Esposito [00:30:05]:

Right.

Christopher McFadden [00:30:06]:

Well, I think the thing is, is that I'm there with you. Right. But the Buy the Glass program, it's funny because you'll have a lot of. I think a lot of people in general go, well, the Buy the Glass program is probably the easiest thing to write. I'm like, that's the hardest thing to write. That's. That's the thing that you first look at. So that's not interesting.

Christopher McFadden [00:30:24]:

You're not going to flip the page. So I used to drop off wine lists to rest to guests tables, and I would. I'd sit back and kind of, you know, not creepily watch, but kind of observe. My staff were so well versed in the Buy the glass program because our Buy the Glass program had not continued changes to it, but we had more flexibility and having fun with editing things there. Because you're not buying, you're not committing to, you know, just this is going to be on the bottle list all the time. But the wine by the glass list has a little bit more fun and a little bit more funk, I think, to it. But it has to be the magic behind knowing the rest of the wine list itself. And that's where I have the opportunity to hop in.

Christopher McFadden [00:31:07]:

So my expectation for, you know, if the staff were in my staff, my team, if the team, you know, had this opportunity to know that by the glass program so strongly and well, they could then have that additional comment to it of going, if there was something that you wanted to look in a little bit deeper conversation, Christopher Arsoli would be happy to come over. I would always try to have my. My team time their timing to be at the table to listen as I was now having a conversation with the guests so that they can ingest little bits of more information for themselves. But my biggest thing was the team by the Glasses is huge. And I think there's way more effort that needs to go into understanding by the Glass program because it's the hardest thing to build as a smallie because it needs to be the reason why somebody wants to look through the next 27 pages of your book. If they're not interested in you by the glass list, they're not interested in everything else. That's the tease. That's the tease.

Angelo Esposito [00:32:03]:

I love that. Well said. Okay, these are great nuggets that. That I think we'll be able to share with our listeners. Is super cool. The moment we've been waiting for, right? Like, what's. What made you transition into, you know, the McFadden group? So, like, you've been doing all these cool things, being with some gear, running restaurants, fine dining, bigger groups, hotels, you name it. And then now you decide, you know what? I want to start my own thing.

Angelo Esposito [00:32:29]:

What made you want to start your own thing? And tell me a bit about, like, what. What that looked like.

Christopher McFadden [00:32:33]:

I've been an anxious human being my whole life and not like, whatever. We're running restaurants. Right. There's a lot of things that happen in bouncing Balls, that golf course that we try to get back on track. But end of 2021, kind of fall 2021, I was starting to really battle some Personal things. My wife and I were trying to start a family we weren't having any luck with. Just it wasn't going to happen for us. Naturally, IVF didn't work.

Christopher McFadden [00:32:59]:

We had a miscarriage. And I was tasting wine through all of this and then handling the COVID world, which we did really successfully at the restaurant I was a part of and a partner at, but I wasn't paying attention to myself. So when we opened out of COVID our number one thing was, we're going to position our thinking differently. Let's put the guests second. Let's put our staff first. Because if our team doesn't want to be here, then we can't have guests. And if our staff doesn't feel safe, then there's no guests. And like the bouncing ball doesn't work unless guests can come into your room and there's a team there that can take care of them.

Christopher McFadden [00:33:32]:

It just doesn't work. Right, but who's taking care of the team? So we put our staff first. I was, and I said this a couple times, that, you know, we were firing guests. Right. Don't be at a line. This is. This is the rules of COVID This is how it works. But we're going to position a little bit differently.

Christopher McFadden [00:33:49]:

We're very lucky as partnership in this group that we've decided to run this with a little bit more of an iron fist, because if our team doesn't feel safe coming in, there's no point in what we're doing. But my issue that I had was I forgot to take care of myself first. So as I was very much a happy smile outside of it and looking like I was getting through it, I was.

Angelo Esposito [00:34:12]:

Yeah.

Christopher McFadden [00:34:13]:

And I was secretly tasting wine and not doing it maliciously to get drunk, but just as a distraction to the consciousness that was existing around me. And my wife and I are. We're pretty cool. We're waiting to be matched for adopting a child through the foster care system and through children's aid. But there's a lot of things that were happening in my life and my family. I've got a lot of family illness in Ontario that needed our attention a little bit more. So there was everything basically that I buried down. And end of December, I had to.

Christopher McFadden [00:34:47]:

I left the restaurant that I was a partner at, and my partnership chairs went back and I knew that I had to step out of it and do some self discovery. And as that happens, an old colleague, a dear friend, Edwin Kumar, approached me about emotional intelligence and soft skills. Was that ever something that I was ever trained at in restaurants. And I was like, no, no, no. We're never taught about the people. We're taught about the positions and why. Like, it's the grind that we do and the heart and soul that goes into it, but nobody ever saying, hey, how are you today? Looks like it's tough day something. Okay, Right? What does communication look like? So Edwin and I created a program called Restaurant Leadership 101.

Christopher McFadden [00:35:29]:

And what's amazing is that I didn't even know AI was a thing back then. This is in 2022 is when we really started building it. So it was 10 months of study and, like, and studies of emotional intelligence and then positioning it into restaurant leadership and positional leadership. So we had 43 graduates in a year from four different cohorts that we did. And as that was kind of happening, I'd gone back to restaurants and then fell apart again. And my wife goes, I think we need to. To make a change. And there's a lot of family things that are happening in eastern Canada that need our attention.

Christopher McFadden [00:36:03]:

So her and I dropped 18 years of living at west, and in two months, we packed up and moved to Ontario. So that could be closer to my stepmom who was fighting the fight over life for cancer. My mom with dementia, grandma with Alzheimer's, helping my dad through everything. My wife's family. So a lot of these things were happening, but it was. It was Bunny Things and McFadden Group. And very sadly, in the two months that we were making the move, I was home in Ontario for two weeks because my stepmom was. Was not coming out of hospital, and I was here with my dad when she passed away.

Christopher McFadden [00:36:36]:

Finished restaurant. Everything, everything this happened. There was this momentum that just kicked in. I've always been a tenacious human being, but. But my tenacity changed because I had to re pivot the focus. And all of a sudden, handling two visitations, a funeral. Intense, intense, intense. I Finished Wrestling Leadership 101.

Christopher McFadden [00:36:59]:

I launched McFadden Group. I flew home on a Friday night. 34 hours later, my wife and I were on the flight with two cats and bags, and we were moving to Burlington. And now the McFadden group focused itself on really developing, really people, teaching them their soft skills to develop their hard skills. And that was great. It was a new thing I was doing. And then it was last summer when I realized that I was getting more excited about the idea of reintroducing my company as career coaching and career development. Yeah, Focus on emotional intelligence and really core values.

Christopher McFadden [00:37:33]:

Exploration of yourself to really help you align where you want to go. Because as a college professor over the last couple years I've had all these students that were coming up and going were just stuck. And a big deal was the international students, because being 9,000km away from home now, here, living an hour apart from friends and colleagues that you only see when you're downtown Toronto, there was this big bag of emotions that were happening with students. And I'm very transparent in conversation and very honest about things. And in the last three years, I've gotten my coaching certifications in hospitality, leadership, addiction and recovery and emotional intelligence with masterclass certifications and emotional intelligence and relationships. So my entire thing is about behaviors of people and how we act in ourselves that comes out for others and on the outer scope of things. So as this was all happening, the McFadden group did a pivot and realized that I wanted to help people go from here to here and what those steps look like versus trying to convince somebody to go from here to here. And that my, my remodeling of the McFadden group was a focus on individuals and teams and very much so the individuals within those teams themselves.

Christopher McFadden [00:38:42]:

So that was the pivot, was that I had to do self discovery, that I hospitality business in a very strong way, but in a bigger scope of things now because I had more people to work with and not just the limitedness of my own team. But now there's an opportunity to do this in a bigger scale.

Angelo Esposito [00:39:01]:

That's really neat. And you know, you definitely touched on. There's, there's a whole, you know, emotional side to hospitality. And so, you know, questions are running through my head as you're kind of talking about this. And the one that came to my mind is why do you think the industry has a tendency to attract more people that lead with heart over maybe profit? You know, from your point of view, you spoke about that emotional side. It's like what is it about hospitality that that you find does that.

Christopher McFadden [00:39:31]:

I think there's a difference. And I started talking about resilience being a retention spectrum and that maybe the metric of being more soundly financially sound or more financially sound in your business could be by having happier staff. I'd sell more if I was happy, if I wanted to be there, have to be there, I would sell more.

Angelo Esposito [00:39:57]:

I love.

Christopher McFadden [00:39:59]:

Right crack an expensive bottle of wines was great, but still if I get a party of eight on eight bottles of wine by the end of the day and a five hour dinner, right. And create more momentum in that Enjoyment watching them do it, but having my own, you know, stuff that I was dealing with and maybe kind of hiding away from it.

Angelo Esposito [00:40:16]:

Yeah.

Christopher McFadden [00:40:16]:

I then became worse when I stopped drinking, because I was there. I was there. I was present, but I was present in my own self being there. So I think 100 data is everything. Numbers exist. But I truly believe that there could be more money in the bank. You know, when we. When I was through Covid at the restaurant that I was a partner at, at half capacity, we did a thousand more covers than we budgeted for with full capacity and 100 grand more.

Christopher McFadden [00:40:45]:

Because the difference was we took care of our staff first. All of a sudden, we had a lineup out of our door because guests went, heard, you're doing good things. I had resumes coming in like crazy. I was very blessed. Restaurant foundation tell me that we were the example that everybody should have followed. And it was all because people were happy we were putting money in the bank.

Angelo Esposito [00:41:03]:

And say that one more time because I want to. I might have to clip that part. So half capacity and say that again.

Christopher McFadden [00:41:12]:

Half capacity. A thousand more covers than we had originally budgeted for in January. So this was in September. March is when covet happened. Right. So when we reopened, we technically reopened in September with half capacity. So we were 143 seats. Originally, we went down to 64.

Christopher McFadden [00:41:27]:

We did a thousand more covers than we budgeted for with 143 seats and 100,000. Because our staff are happy. When you walked.

Angelo Esposito [00:41:35]:

That's a powerful message. That's why I want you to repeat that, because it's just backing up what you're saying, which is like, happy staff make a difference. Makes a difference, Right? Like it makes a difference. Yeah.

Christopher McFadden [00:41:46]:

If you were having a bad day, send me a text. I don't need the reason on it. If you need today, take it. Take it. The restaurant's the easy part to figure out. At 25 years of doing this in the business, I should be able to sort a section if I have to take a section. Great. And I had one of my.

Christopher McFadden [00:42:04]:

My assistant manager. Amazing, amazing girl, Hannah Brown. Great human being. And I loved running rooms with female and male together because I love that. That. That the beauty of two different hearts and minds thinking alike and being very collective and how we can do it together. And there was a brunch shift where two staff were like, just not today. And I was like, take it.

Christopher McFadden [00:42:27]:

We got this. And Hannah and I ended up doing like a monster brunch. But we didn't once talk to Each other through the shift. We just watched each other because we knew where we were at, because we were clear, full clarity, understanding of what was happening and how we could do it based upon what we knew what to do, because it's what we do. We took care of people. Right. So we were able to do it because both of our minds were emotionally connected. Like, I think the cognition and emotion is so magical when it comes together.

Christopher McFadden [00:42:57]:

But your staff come in happy and wanting to be there. It changes the whole perspective of what we're doing. And the data will make better sense and I think a better way to look at it, a better way to see it and analyze it, versus being angry or, you know, scornful at your team members aren't there. But I think of the more heart that we put into the people because it gives them a chance to know that they can put more heart into your business, the stronger the model just works out. You keep a team there. Great. Right. I had waiters that worked for me at highs for 50 years and retired at 50 years.

Christopher McFadden [00:43:37]:

Right. But these are the guys.

Angelo Esposito [00:43:38]:

Yeah.

Christopher McFadden [00:43:39]:

This is career waiters. You know, this is what they do.

Angelo Esposito [00:43:43]:

And that's amazing. So, look, I know other people listening. Yeah. Keep your staff happy, I think. And this is perfect saying, because as we're slowly coming up on time, I think people listening in might be like, okay, I'm sold. Keeping staff happy makes sense. So I want to do two things. One is I want you to give maybe one or two little nuggets on ways they can maybe keep him happy as a tease.

Angelo Esposito [00:44:07]:

And then I want to end off by how can they find you more about the McFadden Group? So if they want to actually get some career coaching and implement all these strategies, they can reach out to you. So let's start with the first one. Just drop in one or two pieces of knowledge on how can. How can you practically. What are one or two things you can do to make your staff happier? If someone's listening in today, I think.

Christopher McFadden [00:44:29]:

The more we pay attention to them. There's a big conversation that's come up over the last couple years about stay interviews and interview the people that are with you. Right. Rather than just the new ones that are coming in. There's always new people that are there. Right. Well, what about the ones that are with you and staying with you? Yeah. I started realizing how important goal setting was for my team was one day I just had this.

Christopher McFadden [00:44:55]:

Realized that we have to do goal setting. We got to see what's going on with the team, what do they need from me? Not this is what I need from you. Let's reverse this, right? What do you need from me? And what are three goals for yourself in the next three, six and nine months, let's say. And what they didn't know though is that I was putting their own goals, my own goals for them together at the same time. So when I sat down and had a conversation with them, it was neat because they're like, so these are my goals. And I said, great. Anything else? Like, no, no, I feel good about it. I said perfect, these are my goals for you.

Christopher McFadden [00:45:25]:

And they went, what? And I said, this is, this is what I have for you in the next three months. And they're like, oh, excuse me, I didn't know you were gonna, I didn't know you were gonna do this. And I said, well, yeah, and I wouldn't have, there would no be port no part of this being a relationship that we're having if I didn't have a hand in letting you know what I have hopefully set up for you. Let's say where I want to, right. And then all of a sudden the, the tone back was, can I redo my goals? Sure you can. Is that you're not just somebody on the schedule. Right. The difference is, is that I'm paying attention to you.

Christopher McFadden [00:46:05]:

And I think the more we do that not just for our management, not just for our leads and not just for our seniors. And like the 17 year old hostess at the front door needs to know that this is a great place to generate a career and it's not just a job or a place that you stop by. Right. I think there's a theory that exists with the more you pay attention to the little things, the simple, hey, how are you today? How was your morning? And not just, oh yeah, I'll get to you in a minute. Right? Find the time in your day to, to get to know your staff number one.

Angelo Esposito [00:46:40]:

I love that. That's a good one. So stay interview people listening. That's a lot of good feedback in that at one point stay interviews being a big one and if you got another one to share and then I'd love to plug away so people can find you. Right. It's the most important thing and I want them to be able to find you well.

Christopher McFadden [00:46:54]:

And I, I, I love servant leadership in style. I think it's super important when we're all, all hands in kind of a metric and being, being importantly involved with service is a monster thing when you're, I would Be clearing a table one day and a server assistant. I never called them bussers. I changed the title on the schedule from Server from Buster to Server Assistant. And the shift that happened in this one kid that worked for me and was 17 years old, he came in taller and stronger when he saw a title change. And I was like, that's cool. Okay, cool. This is great.

Christopher McFadden [00:47:27]:

He's like, did you see what they did? And I was like, I'm the day. This is really cool. But the perspective of being all hands in and having this perspective that everybody that's on the floor or in that service is all trying to accomplish the exact same goal. So when you get your mindset too, it's an all hands in perspective on it. I think it shifts the tone with a team when they, when they trust that from you completely. So yeah, all hands in. Put them in. Right.

Angelo Esposito [00:47:55]:

I love that. I love that. So those are, those are two good tips. I'm sure there's plenty more coming from you. So really the idea here is I want to have share. How can people find you? Where can they find you? So again, Christopher McFadden, the name of the company is the McFadden Group. I want to hand it over to you websites, LinkedIn, socials, whatever you want to plug.

Christopher McFadden [00:48:15]:

Yeah, great. So I very heavily use my personal LinkedIn and tag my company into that. So Christopher McFadden on LinkedIn. I'm on TikTok as the McFadden Group TMG, the McFadden Group on Instagram, the McFadden Group on Facebook and then my website is tmghospitality ca and best way to reach out to me via email is tmghospitality.com ChristopherMG hyphen hospitality.com but yeah, my entire focus is really, really allowing individuals to really focus on their personal growth, clarity and momentum through understanding themselves a little bit more. And then with teams, it's really looking at this elevated collective performance and collaboration and alignment. But I believe in people. My company's tagline is building people positions because I want people to love this business like I've always loved it. And I think we've had a lot of moments through Covid and reopen and close and what are we doing? And technology is so beautifully involved now that it's allowing our jobs to have a little bit momentum quicker.

Christopher McFadden [00:49:21]:

But we're in the people business and if, if, if we're not allowing that to still be a huge component to what and why we do what we are doing and taking care of people, it's a magical business. It's a magical industry. And. And I love every bit of it.

Angelo Esposito [00:49:38]:

I love that. Well said. Well, Christopher, thanks for joining us on the WISKey and All podcast for listeners. As always, we're going to put all the links in the show notes so you can reach out. You can learn more about how Christopher can maybe help you out, how TMG can maybe help you personally as an individual or as your team to elevate, you know, your people, which in the end will elevate your business. So, Christopher, thanks for joining us. It was a pleasure having you on the show, Angelo.

Christopher McFadden [00:50:03]:

Thank you, my friend.

Angelo Esposito [00:50:04]:

If you want to learn more about WISK, head to Wisk AI and book a demo.

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